Yesterday's draft
The draft to me as an observer not from the world of soccer (thus not affected by your internal politics) seems to me to be sort of a scam.
Let me explain, the WPS is running a number of Combines for players to try out. Players from the past WUSA, present W-league and the other league, colleges and international can be drafted (various times) or try out. Each team is or was allotted 3 National Team Members and 2 (I think) international players and allowed to pick from the pool of remaining National team members in the first "US" open draft (yesterday).
This WPS has run two combines so far with another 2-3 on the schedule. Each invited player has to pay the WPS $400 or so to register for the combine (with at least 128 players paying = ($51,200.00 to the WPS each combine-gross amount, not net) and these players have to pay for their own hotel and so on.
Each team after selecting their National and International players pre-Draft yesterday had about 13 to 15 spots remamining (for the final team with 22 spots at most for the pre-season; thus short-term contracts are a possibility).
Yesterday's draft had 4 rounds of 7 selections or 28 players drafted to the Active teams). Thus at most if no additional players from the National team or International community were selected the first two combines (west/east coast for the 2 "major" womens leagues that now exist), 100 players from at least the Tampa combine are out for now. After yesterday, each team is down to about 9 to 12 or so remaining slots - do NOT miss this point - and yet two upcoming combines with many players and the college player allottment still is not done. Chances of making a team for most players (99% of them) is probably <5% - therefore, politics and other is taking effect already in this WPS and that is not good for long-term success.
There is an upcoming December combine (east and west coast) where yet agaoin invited players will be asked to pay to be evaluated (thus WPS may make an additional $102,000 or so) for teh ~Januray draft.
Also at this time and when the Collegiate season ends - those college players with no eligibility left are available for the draft as well - thus fresh young legs in addition to the others from all of these drafts are available for the teams.
Thus in reality - when looking how the WPS and the WPS teams to date have done their Combines and drafts - these Combines are not really for finding and selecting players,, but rather to raise some capital for the WPS alone and to of course try to promote this new league.
I as a fan of wommen's soccer just feel like this set up is more misleading to prospective players and that the WPS is not being honest in how the drafts are being run (no doubt that all of the teams have already mapped out who they want to draft or play for each team, thus why waste people's money or time - just start with the players you want or open it up fairly for the best players to shine having the coaches at the combine actually watch each positional player rather than worry about check out time or if enough food is there for the staff. Focus on the people that you are trying to build a successful league with.
Let me explain, the WPS is running a number of Combines for players to try out. Players from the past WUSA, present W-league and the other league, colleges and international can be drafted (various times) or try out. Each team is or was allotted 3 National Team Members and 2 (I think) international players and allowed to pick from the pool of remaining National team members in the first "US" open draft (yesterday).
This WPS has run two combines so far with another 2-3 on the schedule. Each invited player has to pay the WPS $400 or so to register for the combine (with at least 128 players paying = ($51,200.00 to the WPS each combine-gross amount, not net) and these players have to pay for their own hotel and so on.
Each team after selecting their National and International players pre-Draft yesterday had about 13 to 15 spots remamining (for the final team with 22 spots at most for the pre-season; thus short-term contracts are a possibility).
Yesterday's draft had 4 rounds of 7 selections or 28 players drafted to the Active teams). Thus at most if no additional players from the National team or International community were selected the first two combines (west/east coast for the 2 "major" womens leagues that now exist), 100 players from at least the Tampa combine are out for now. After yesterday, each team is down to about 9 to 12 or so remaining slots - do NOT miss this point - and yet two upcoming combines with many players and the college player allottment still is not done. Chances of making a team for most players (99% of them) is probably <5% - therefore, politics and other is taking effect already in this WPS and that is not good for long-term success.
There is an upcoming December combine (east and west coast) where yet agaoin invited players will be asked to pay to be evaluated (thus WPS may make an additional $102,000 or so) for teh ~Januray draft.
Also at this time and when the Collegiate season ends - those college players with no eligibility left are available for the draft as well - thus fresh young legs in addition to the others from all of these drafts are available for the teams.
Thus in reality - when looking how the WPS and the WPS teams to date have done their Combines and drafts - these Combines are not really for finding and selecting players,, but rather to raise some capital for the WPS alone and to of course try to promote this new league.
I as a fan of wommen's soccer just feel like this set up is more misleading to prospective players and that the WPS is not being honest in how the drafts are being run (no doubt that all of the teams have already mapped out who they want to draft or play for each team, thus why waste people's money or time - just start with the players you want or open it up fairly for the best players to shine having the coaches at the combine actually watch each positional player rather than worry about check out time or if enough food is there for the staff. Focus on the people that you are trying to build a successful league with.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by peter wilt on -
Hmmm...you lost me when you lost your facts.WPS hasn't done ANY combines yet. W-League and WPSL each had one and that's what you're probably referring to.The two December combines will be hosted by WPS. There are no fees for either of these combines. The players do need to get themselves to the combine however. If you think that is onerous on the prospective players, please consider that this shows that this league will keep a better eye on expenses than WUSA in order to ensure sustainability.
Ps: you also erred in the number of international players allotted. There was a draft recently to allocate the rights of four international players per team. Teams are also able to retain additional international player rights through a "discovery" process and may sign a total of five international players.
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Permalink Reply by D.Scott on -
even if you are 100% right (which you are not unless you can verify the money trail for the two combines done to date with the checks and payments being collected and organized by the WPS), i say that this league is not doing the players they invite justice.
First of all, i watched the combines, I was there, getting the coaches to do the evals for each game was a task, and in addition, if the coaches are busy eating, talking - they are not taking notes on the girls and so on - Is that fair to the girls that are being evaluated?
Also - a true combine does not only have the girls play in to see how they play in a game, but also evaluateds the individual at their position through standardized testing - this allows the coach, manager and so on to have a fuller, more robust understanding of each prospective player...
peter wilt said:Hmmm...you lost me when you lost your facts.WPS hasn't done ANY combines yet. W-League and WPSL each had one and that's what you're probably referring to.The two December combines will be hosted by WPS. There are no fees for either of these combines. The players do need to get themselves to the combine however. If you think that is onerous on the prospective players, please consider that this shows that this league will keep a better eye on expenses than WUSA in order to ensure sustainability.
Ps: you also erred in the number of international players allotted. There was a draft recently to allocate the rights of four international players per team. Teams are also able to retain additional international player rights through a "discovery" process and may sign a total of five international players.
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Permalink Reply by K C on -
I can understand if someone is not 100% happy with the way a combine is run, but let's face facts...these seven teams want the best players they can get. It wouldn't be like they were trying to "fix" the combines so less talented players are chosen.
No matter what sport, each team is going to have their own way of evaluating the talent that's out there. And yes, mistakes will be made. I'm sure as talented as the players taken in the draft yesterday are, I'm sure there will be at least one player that will be a disappointment and yes, down the road, we're going to find a few players that were passed on yesterday that turn out to be very good players. But that's the nature of sports in general. Again, just like 1st round draft picks bomb in the NFL, while some undrafted free agents turn out good.
As far as I know (not counting the NFL), prospective players usually have to pay their own way to tryout camps. That's certainly true in baseball and some other sports.
In any event, players that weren't chosen yesterday still have at least two more chances to prove themselves, at the combines in December and at individual team tryouts in February, 2009.
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Permalink Reply by Eleanor on -
Interesting discussion. I think do not think that any coaches relied solely on the combine or the upcoming combine, to select players. I am sure they networked through the soccer world to vet the available players and also looked at their histories. All of the players selected have lengthy histories in high school, college, W-League, WPSL League, the national teams and even overseas. If I were a coach, I would definitely be looking at all of that -- heck, google makes that task easy. Odds are many of these coaches are personally acquainted with the players through one forum or another. That is certainly true of Gabarra. So the combines seem to me merely an opportunity to see players in person, in a thrown together, tough situation.
Basketball players trying to make it to the NBA go through a similar tryout system. And regarding the 5 percent figure . . . isn't that optimistic for pro sports? Aren't the odds really like less than 1 percent?
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Permalink Reply by Alyse LaHue on -
Thus in reality - when looking how the WPS and the WPS teams to date have done their Combines and drafts - these Combines are not really for finding and selecting players,, but rather to raise some capital for the WPS alone and to of course try to promote this new league.
Those are some pretty bold 'facts' you are presenting there. Again, WPS hasn't done any combines. WPS teams haven't done any combines. Saying WPS is therefore using it as a money-raising capital scheme sounds brilliant (if it was strictly about raising funds), but of course, is not a fact.
There's still another half of a roster to fill, so my own personal opinion is that a coach is not 100% on who those other players are going to be. Even if they have an idea, they have to go through a draft process again. Do you think every coach comes out of a draft with all of the players they wanted every time? Think about other factors, for example, other teams picking ahead of you. Simply put, each team will surely enter the draft with an entire board of options and will be picking according to what happens with other teams ahead of them, etc.
There's alot of 'prospective' players. There are currently only 7 teams. Limiting the number of internationals that can be on each team surely leaves more spots for American players, but again... there are only 7 teams so far. Not alot of spots to fill and clearly there is plenty of talent out there. I believe the allocation and drafting processes are to create as much parity between the teams as there can be in an inaugural season. It's a difficult task, but I think it has been done well so far.
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Permalink Reply by Milan on -
I think one of D. Scott's points is, if the coaches have already made up their minds on who they want and are at the combines busy socializing and eating and not paying attention to kids who are giving their all, then what's the point? I'm sure every kid who goes to one of the combines wants to be evaluated honestly and not be there just for fluff.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Permalink Reply by WPS on -
Hi D. Scott,
Just to re-enforce what Peter and Alyse have already written, you don't have your facts correct. The combines in August and September, were run by the WPSL and W-League, respectively. WPS was not involved in the management of those events, did not charge players a fee to participate and did not see any money from the WPSL and W-League players who participated in those events.
WPS will run two combines in December - one of the West Coast and one on the East Coast. The invited players will NOT be charged a fee to participate in the combine, so again WPS will NOT make any money from the players who participate in the December combines. Our purpose in holding these combines is to provide players with the opportunity to be scouted by WPS coaches as they seek to play in our league, not to make money for the League.
Scouting the players at the combines is something WPS coaches take very seriously. Each coach wants to build the best roster possible and is competing with the other coaches and franchises to find the players who will make his/her team a winner. These combines help the coaches answer questions about the participating players as they prepare for the drafts.
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Permalink Reply by D.Scott on
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WPS - if that is true, why did teh all of the coaches (almost all but one) leave the last day of combine BEFORE the 2nd set of games were played. The DC coach left, the NY/NJ coach,, San Jose coach too left (before 12 I think)- the only ones who stayed I think were Chicago and Tony (Boston). The respect to players is not being given.
The combine should include one-on-one or individual assessments in addition to the game playing. Much broader of a picture of a player by learning more about their skill set by taking the American footbal type of approach for evals.
WPS said:Hi D. Scott,
Just to re-enforce what Peter and Alyse have already written, you don't have your facts correct. The combines in August and September, were run by the WPSL and W-League, respectively. WPS was not involved in the management of those events, did not charge players a fee to participate and did not see any money from the WPSL and W-League players who participated in those events.
WPS will run two combines in December - one of the West Coast and one on the East Coast. The invited players will NOT be charged a fee to participate in the combine, so again WPS will NOT make any money from the players who participate in the December combines. Our purpose in holding these combines is to provide players with the opportunity to be scouted by WPS coaches as they seek to play in our league, not to make money for the League.
Scouting the players at the combines is something WPS coaches take very seriously. Each coach wants to build the best roster possible and is competing with the other coaches and franchises to find the players who will make his/her team a winner. These combines help the coaches answer questions about the participating players as they prepare for the drafts.
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Permalink Reply by Lauren on -
I would think that the initial combines, like the first tryouts for any sport, is more for elimination purposes than for picking out your team. The combines before the drafts give coaches an opportunity to get a feel for what's out there. These coaches are going to build a team around the best and most well known players especially for a league that is in its inaugural season. The coaches didn't have much of their base team set up at that point so how could they effectively judge what they are looking for until later on in the selection process? Now that a good chunk of the teams' foundations are set with national team players and international players, I bet coaches will be looking at the next combines with a fine tooth comb. The coaches now have a better idea of what their teams need. They know who they have and can build the rest of the team around the core that they have. They can find the missing pieces in the combines.
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Permalink Reply by Soccerdad on -
this is what the charge was for the W-League so I understand where he is coming from. 128 players came out and spent money on this... to be truthfull - all the players selected could have been selected without these combines and they were mearly a dog and pony show - it does show that this was a worthless excersize in futility. All of these teams have been preparing for months and knew what they wanted and scouted all the players in the respected leagues. the most glaring is LA, where they selected only players that had played for the NJ wildcats under Naimo
To cite the W-League website
What are the costs involved for the combine?
Player Fees:
$395 - Open applicant players
$375 - W-League 2008 players
$275 - W-League 2008 All-League players
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Permalink Reply by D.Scott on
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Thank you soccerdad, you are 100% correct, the WPS could have held their first two drafts without ANY combine or only 1 since so few players were picked from the combines.
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Permalink Reply by D.Scott on
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Again to you "WPS" - why were the coaches who were evaluating the players allowed to leave early? Why were they more interested in the food coming or drinks or dinner that night than be more active watching and assessing...Let's face it, the DC coach has his players and system set (may be not publicly) and the others showed direspect by not giving the players full attention.
I am sure that the Dec combines will be better run. It is still a shame or wrong not to assess the player in whole...
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